Cecilia Dart-Thornton

Melbournite Cecilia Dart-Thornton is one of Australia’s top fantasy writers, with several lengthy fantasy series under her belt since she was discovered on the internet and a publisher snapped her up at the beginning of this decade.

Her debut series, The Bitterbynde Trilogy is packed full of interesting ideas and creatures drawn from traditional European folk tales and legend, as well as a hint of romance. You can find Keeping the Door‘s review of the first book in the series, The Ill-Made Mute, here.

Dart-Thornton’s second series, The Crowthistle Chronicles, concluded in 2007 with Fallowblade. The series is similarly concerned with Celtic folklore.

But Dart-Thornton isn’t a one-dimensional persion; she has various other areas of her life that are important to her. The author, according to Wikipedia, is a keen supporter of animal rights and wilderness conservation, and is also interested in clay culpting, performing folk music, and even digital media. We conducted an email interview with Dart-Thornton to find out what’s up and what’s next.

With The Crowthistle Chronicles finished, what can you let slip about new projects you’re working on?

I can let slip that my projects are too many and too few. Too many in that as ever I find myself inundated with ideas for stories, but too few in that I have pieces of unfinished work all over the place, because my muse currently appears to have attention deficit disorder. I have always been a writer who’s carried on the waves of passion and spontaneity. If I feel like writing, I write. If not, I don’t. Forcing myself to write kills creativity and leads to a lack-lustre result. If I feel charged with excitement about a story I’ll want to do nothing *but* write.

Recently, however, I have been so taken with new ideas (not always associated with writing) that I have not been seeing old ones through to their conclusion. So there you have it. I may never finish anything again, and if so, ‘c’est la vie’. The world will have to content itself with seven finished novels, a couple of short stories and half a dozen unfinished manuscripts from me!

Having said that, my novella The Enchanted will be coming out next year in an anthology tentatively titled Australian Legends of Fantasy, edited by Jack Dann and Jonathan Strahan. Harpercollins will be publishing it.

(Postscript: being a fully paid-up nerd, one of the projects that I’ve been dabbling in is web design, so feel free to take a look at my lovely new website at http://www.dartthornton.com/ and my webshop at http://www.my-bookcafe.com.)

When reading The Bitterbynde Trilogy, I was struck by the lush language you used in describing your created world. Where did you pick up so many words that we rarely (but probably should) use in the English language?

Ever since childhood, when I read (experienced would be a better term) the Narnia books and then The Lord of the Rings, I have always wanted to create a world of my own. When I was writing Bitterbynde I knew that this was it, and I wanted to pour everything into it – my obsession with languages, my fascination with meteorology, with the seasons, botany, flight, geology, customs and traditions, folklore… all that I loved would go into the making of this world.

In my ‘spare’ time I paint pictures in oils, and when writing The Bitterbynde Trilogy I felt like an artist trying to capture my inner world with words instead of paints. And I wanted to use every shade on the palette that I could possibly blend.

Shakespeare, one of my literary heroes, had an extraordinary vocabulary. ‘About.com’ says, “While most English speakers can boast of a 4,000-word vocabulary, Shakespeare’s vocabulary spanned over 29,000 words.”

Given the quarter of a million words that make up the English language (depending on one’s definition of ‘word’1), I thought, why not use them as they were meant to be used? Why restrict yourself to ‘red’ when you could have nuances of ruby, garnet, scarlet, crimson, amaranth, carmine, vermilion, alizarin and more? Why stick to buttered toast when you could have a twenty course feast? Why not add yet another rhetorical question and consider dipping one’s toe in a puddle as compared to splashing and diving in a life-size champagne fountain?

For years it’s been my habit to read dictionaries and thesauri for recreation so I was able to indulge myself most luxuriously. And self-indulgence was what the creation of The Bitterbynde sprang from. I delighted, too, in resurrecting a number of archaisms that appealed to me. I am a hoarder, not a discarder, and it galls me to think of perfectly good words falling out of use.

Your books so far seem to draw on much Celtic and broader European folklore – but not necessarily the traditional Tolkienesque tropes of the fantasy genre. Do you anticipate that you will continue to be fascinated by this area of myth, or can you see yourselve using different settings?

The folklore of the United Kingdom and Eire is a life-long love, for me. I can never visualise myself losing interest in it. Discovering some new creature or traditional tale still makes the hairs on the back of my neck rise. Nonetheless, one of the part-finished works in my ‘filing system’ deals with creatures inspired, instead, by Biblical myth. I would hesitate to write about elves, dwarves and orcs, because The Lord of Fantasy has already done so, and in short, none can compare. The rest of us are simply Not Worthy.

It’s rare that we find an Australian fantasy author whose work is so well-developed (Keeping the Door is based in Sydney). What is your opinion of the Australian fantasy author scene, and what can be done to improve it?

Hmm. You know Renai, I have a really nice back garden. Visitors exclaim over it because it is a flourishing edible landscape of real beauty and productiveness. But no one ever asks me my opinion on the Australian gardening scene. Thank goodness – because I might be okay at looking after my own patch but I have very little idea of what other people are doing in theirs. (Except when a dose of curly-leaf blows in on my nectarine tree and I know that gardeners nearby haven’t been using Bordeaux Mixture).

I do know that writers such as Alison Goodman and Trudi Canavan have been spectacularly successful internationally, and I have a smattering of other knowledge, but I find it hard to read any fantasy these days a) in case I unconsciously pick up someone else’s ideas and b) because I find myself making technical judgements instead of losing myself in the story.

I do feel that the Internet has made us all more global than local and that there is no reason why an Australian writer should have more or less of a chance to become successful than writers anywhere else.

Critics of your work have negatively focused on the plot and character development in your novels, while praising your descriptive and world-building skills. How would you respond to such criticism?

Renai, it was *you* who said this in your ‘Ill-Made Mute’ review! “…it is in this world that the strength of The Ill-Made Mute lies. …in comparison, the plot and characterisation displayed in the book are somewhat lacking. … I felt they were a little one-dimensional.”

[Editor's note: Fair point!]

And I have no argument. When I wrote the trilogy I was writing it for an audience of one – myself. I wrote the whole trilogy – more than half a million words – not knowing whether it would ever be published. After it was finished I did not show it to anyone for months, and then I only let a close friend take a look. Long afterwards I decided to reveal it to the world, and if the world had rejected it, I would have been disappointed but not shattered. I had done what I set out to do and that would have been enough.

While I like people, I am not consumed by curiosity as to their motives, their idiosyncrasies, their quirks and characteristics. Of course people interest me, but so does the wide world with its myriad surprises. My desire was not to explore characters so much as to discover this virtual world. I make no apology for that. I have never done a course in creative writing and at that stage did not know that writers are ‘supposed to’ develop characters and make stories character-driven.

I did not know that we are not ‘supposed’ to indulge in long descriptions, nor that the literary community largely considers it a grievous error to employ ‘said-bookisms’. I was writing by instinct, not according to the manual. Even my wide vocabulary, I learned later, might normally have proved a stumbling block in the path to publication.

Three of the characters in particular did interest me, and these are the ones best-beloved by readers. They are Ashalind, Thorn and Sianadh. People tell me they *love* these three; that they have wept and laughed with them and cared deeply for them. And yes, the other characters probably were one-dimensional. As for the plot – I had no idea where it was taking me. But it must have had something going for it because well before the final book was due to hit the shops I had received hundreds of email begging for it to be released earlier, and it had to be re-printed in the first week of publication.

I feel that some of the ideas in your books have been gently subversive in the fantasy genre; for example, themes against animal cruelty. Did you set out to provoke discussion in some areas, even subtly?

‘Gently subversive’ is probably something of an understatement. I would tend to use an analogy involving a hammer. There was not a lot of subtlety about it. Yes I was aware that people would probably resent being preached at about animal rights in the Crowthistle Chronicles, but unfortunately for me I am a person whose conscience makes her do what seems to be the right thing even when it is against her own interests.

The fantasy genre as a whole appears to be expanding and taking on new life as so-called urban fantasy (vampires, werewolves in modern life etc) is attracting a lot of attention. What is your reaction to the strong challenge posed to traditional fantasy tropes by urban fantasy?

Bring it on! The more fantasy the better; it’s enriching the genre. I wouldn’t consider urban fantasy as a challenge – it’s more of an augmentation. Buffy? Can’t get enough. Twilight? In all likelihood I would have swooned over it as a teenager.

Over the years, have you gotten a feel for what kind of reader is typically attracted to your books?

The kind of person who resembles me. The kind of person who loves the pre-Raphaelite artists, the romantic poets, the classic authors and movies such as Labyrinth, Willow and The House of Flying Daggers; people whose inner life is set in some misty European-type landscape of snow-capped mountains, dark forests and fast-flowing rivers; people who are kind, intuitive, creative and of course *highly* intelligent with *superb* taste in literature.

What have been your favourite books that you have read over the past several years?

I recommend a book of short stories by Kelly Link called The Wrong Grave. Yes it is fantasy, which I’ve mentioned I normally avoid, but the publishers were kind enough to send it to me for review, so I gave it a look and was truly delighted. During the past few years I’ve greeted Jonathan Strange and Mr Norell with rapture, and I am always ready to devour any of Pratchett’s Discworld books.

I choose to read ‘popular nonfiction’ by people like Simon Winchester, Victoria Finlay and Dava Sobel. I like a good Bill Bryson too, but just to show I’m not *all* about erudition and hilarity I recently enjoyed The Forest of Hands and Teeth by Carrie Ryan, a thrilling zombie romp-in-the-woods.

Could you describe your writing environment (eg desk, computer, room etc)?

A second storey room with a huge window overlooking my leafy garden which is filled with singing birds. Green boughs overhang my balcony. I write at my best among tree tops. I theorise this is something to do with humanity’s ape-like ancestors seeking the heights for shelter; some residual pre-historic gene I ended up with.

There are books and mess strewn everywhere throughout the room, not by my choosing but because I am a hoarder with too many interests. I would prefer uncluttered tidiness but it doesn’t happen to me. Besides, I need my precious books near at hand for reference and entertainment.

Décor colours are calm yet invigorating – a kind of pale peachy-apricot shade. Colours are important. Sunlight is important, and birdsong is vital. (Human music is banned.) Blowing leaves are vital, too. In fact in my ‘baby book’ my Mum recorded that one of my favourite occupations at the age of a few months was to lie in a bassinet in the garden and stare at blowing leaves.

I work on a notebook computer and if any computer company out there would like to sponsor me I’ll say I’m using theirs. Except that now I’ve completely blown my chance as everyone will know I was ready to say *anything* in return for a deal. What a sellout…

Anyway, back to search engine optimisation now. Thanks for interviewing me Renai, it’s been a pleasure!

Greg Egan is one of Australia’s top science fiction authors, with seven novels under his belt and a slew of collections and short stories under his belt. His 1998 novella Oceanic won the 1999 Hugo Award for Best Novella.

Egan’s work is usually referred to as “hard” sci-fi, which is a sub-section of the genre which often focuses on scientific accuracy or detail. It’s easy to understand why the author can bring this approach to his writing when you realise that he holds a Mathematics degree from the University of Western Australia and has a second career as a software developer.

However, as the best sci-fi authors do, he also has a focus on showing the implications for humans of the technology that he writes about. His books are available widely, and watch out for his next novel Zendegi, which is due out in mid-2010.

When doing research about Egan we also found several other interviews going back quite a ways; one with Piffle, with Eidolon, and a short one about Incandescence.

There is also a lengthy rant on Tor.com from Jon Evans wondering why Egan isn’t considered a superstar of the genre. The easy answer is that many people do consider him so :)

From your website it looks like you have two new books upcoming: Zendegi and Orthogonal. What can you let slip about their current status and subject matter?

Zendegi is set in Iran in the very near future; the first part of the novel takes place in 2012. The ultimate focus of the story involves brain mapping and virtual reality, but the backgrounds of all the characters are entwined with the Iranian pro-democracy movement in various ways. It’s due to be published in mid-2010.

Orthogonal is a novel I’m working on right now; it’s set in a universe with laws of physics that are different from our own. One small change in a fundamental equation — just turning a minus sign into a plus sign — leads to some incredibly rich variations in everything from the way biology works to the relativistic effects of space travel.

Do you have any other writing projects on the boil?

No, Orthogonal is taking up all of my time right now.

There was a fairly large gap between your 2002 book Schild’s Ladder and 2008′s Incandescence. Why so large a gap between books?

In 2002, I got involved with the refugee support movement, trying to help some of the asylum seekers who were in long-term detention in Australia. It really was a disgraceful situation; many people were locked up for three or four years, and some for as long as seven. That ended up monopolising my attention for about four years, so I didn’t get much writing done.

And though the current Australian government has been much better than the last one, in recent weeks the whole issue has been turned into an hysterical, politicised mess once more.

We love the notice on your website about photographs of you. In addition, you’ve been described as a famously reclusive author. What’s the background to your approach there?

Photographs of your friends and family mean something to you, because they remind you of people you’ve interacted with face-to-face for years. A photograph of someone like an author, even if you happen to like their books, is utterly meaningless. Actually, the bizarre situation which the note on my web page addresses — the fact that some idiots have been stealing photos from the web sites of other people called “Greg Egan”, and putting them on SF sites as photos of me — only proves the point.

At one stage, about two dozen SF sites had a picture of the same professor of engineering from Monash University that they were representing as a photo of me. But apart from being incredibly rude to this man whose photo they’d stolen, what difference did it make to any reader that this picture wasn’t actually me? None at all.

As for being “reclusive”, that’s pretty funny; I spend my time with people whose company I enjoy. If there are authors who genuinely enjoy spending their long weekends at SF conventions, that’s fine, but I’d be bored out of my skull.

Your work is often described as “hard” science fiction, in that it is characterised by an emphasis on scientific accuracy. And yet it often also focuses on what might be termed an exploration of how technology has the potential to change what it means to be human (a classic sci-fi trope). Is there a tension between the two ideas, and if so, how do you negotiate it?

I’m interested in science as a subject in its own right, just as much as I’m interested in the effects of technology on the human condition. In many things I write the two will be combined, but even then it’s important to try to describe the science accurately. In a novel such as Incandescence, though, the entire point is understanding the science, and it really doesn’t bother me in the least that it’s not an exploration of the human condition.

There are times when it’s worth putting aside the endless myopic navel-gazing that occupies so much literature, in order to look out at the universe itself and value it for what it is.

Australian readers such as myself get a little thrill whenever we pick up a local mention in your books; it’s rare that our country features at all in sci-fi/fantasy literature. What’s your opinion of the state of the Australian sci-fi literature scene, and what can be done to boost it?

Writers should just write to the best of their ability; everything else follows from that.

Computer science is advancing rapidly, yet not always in the arenas which earlier sci-fi writers thought it would. In particular, we appear to have quite a few barriers in the area of artificial intelligence.

Are you personally disappointed by this, or happy to remain in a world where humans are relatively alone for a little bit longer?

I can’t say I’m disappointed, or surprised, that we don’t have artificial intelligence yet. I’ve written things where conscious software is created in the near future, but it’s usually in the form of direct copies of human minds, so it’s more a matter of us migrating from our bodies than creating a new form of intelligence from scratch.

At the moment we’re so far away from creating any kind of conscious software that it’s hard to know which prospects are realistic, and which are pure fantasy. When we do finally grope our way towards some tangible results, I hope we proceed slowly and carefully, because this has the potential to lead to a lot of suffering.

The present generation of humans emerged out of hundreds of millions of years of animals tearing each other’s throats out, and tens of thousands of years of people being prey to famine and disease. We might aspire to do much better than that, but creating an entirely new kind of intelligence that’s happy with its own place in the world is an incredibly daunting prospect.

What methods do you use to keep up to date on mathematical and scientific theory, and to research it for your writing?

I read a lot of general science, and more specialised journal papers and textbooks in areas that I’m focusing on.

What current technologies most fascinate you when you think about their future potential?

Brain mapping is going to be an immensely interesting and important field. In practical terms, it will lead to all kinds of assistive technology for people with disabilities, and in the longer term it’s
going to shed light on the nature of every mental process.

I usually find your books easy to get into right from the first few chapters. But some sections have attracted criticism from reviewers for what has been described as lengthy technical exposition. How would you respond to this criticism?

People with no interest in science are very well catered for in science fiction; 99% of SF is written for them. I make no apology for contributing to the 1% that treats science as something of interest in its own right.

Lastly, in my household we are also vegetarians. What is your favourite vegetarian meal?

Eggplant parmigiana.

Among fans of fantasy literature, Roger Taylor’s Chronicles of Hawklan series is quite beloved, for its sense of “heart” compared with other, more clinical efforts.

He has also written a number of follow-up books to the series which are set in the same world. Keeping the Door recommends you check his work out if you’re into good fantasy.

The author lives in the UK and is a civil engineer, but also has a number of other past-times apart from writing; according to Wikipedia he is also a pistol, rifle and shotgun shooter, an aikido instructor, and a piano player. He is also now involved in UK politics.

Roger has a website, and his books are available from Mushroom eBooks electronically or printed by demand. We caught up with Roger recently to find out what he’s currently up to.

What first spurred you to become a fantasy writer?

Hard to say – I’ve always been inclined to write. I do remember reading one SF book (which will remain anonymous) which really forced itself on me as being clunkingly awful. It did not prompt ‘I could do better than that,’ but it did result in the revelation – ‘This man might well have written garbage but *I* paid money for it and *he* got money for it.’ That was actually a long time before I started writing but I suspect it planted a powerful seed.

What authors have inspired you in the past?

Where to start, I’ve read such a lot. Certainly for magnificent writing and imagination – books one would read again – Ray Bradbury, Mervyn Peake, Tolkein come immediately to mind. Plus I soaked up a whole raft of SF and Fantasy when I was younger.

When I speak to fantasy fans about your work, a common comment is that it has more “heart” or is “more human” than a lot of other fantasy series out there. What would be your reaction to this statement, and where do you think that sense of “heart” came from in your work?

That’s really good to hear. Ironically, one – well, me, anyway – has only limited control of how stories unfold, but it was always my very clear intention to have ‘ordinary’ people in them. Superheroes can be fun, but it’s ‘plain folk’ in extraordinary circumstances that make for real drama. I can remember when I read The War of the Worlds, it was as if Wells had placed one of those towering fighting machines in the little square at the end of the row of houses where I lived – it gave me the shivers. Very ordinary, very vivid – great stuff.

And too, Homer, Shakespeare, Dickens, Tolstoy on and on – show that while cultures might change, people certainly don’t. There are still plenty of Achilles still sulking over some slight, plenty of Macbeths with their over-weaning ambitions, plenty Kafkaesque bureaucrats

When I first read the Chronicles of Hawklan, the nature of Hawklan as a healer rather than a warrior struck me as markedly different from the normal fantasy stereotypes. Can you describe why you chose to form the series around such an unusual, yet poignant, character?

Even in 1988 I’d been practising aikido for a long time and with long-term training comes the tendency to think about what you are doing – why are you, in effect, studying violence? – Soldiering, to me, is one of the ‘caring’ professions. Warriors put their lives at risk and use their skills to protect the less able – it’s hard to be more moral than that. Had it not been for countless warriors in the past – again, plain folk – you and I would not have the freedoms we have to communicate and pursue our lives so freely. It’s no small debt we owe them.

There is a sense of ancient, majestic sleeping history in Hawklan’s world, especially in Orthlund. Are there certain geographical regions in the real world that you drew inspiration from in creating such a sense?

No.

Your writing style is deceptively simple; easy to for fans to get into, but able to convey complexity as well as profound situations. Can you talk a little about how it developed?

In terms of developing a ‘style’ I really don’t know. As an engineer I’ve had to explain difficult things to lay clients but then again I’ve always admired the marvellous economy and clarity of writers such as Bertrand Russell and A J Ayer. And, again perhaps part of the engineer in me – if you want to communicate with people, do it properly – a litlle empathy – put yourself in their place – would *you* understand that last paragraph if you were them? etc

What writing projects are you currently working on?

Nothing special as I have no contracts, though see www.alternativeparty.org.uk – there are a few thousand words there :-) Have a quiet browse now and then, I’m sure you’ll find something interesting. I have a book three-quarters done, but it’s very odd and is currently fermenting.

I noticed from your website that the martial art Aikido has been important in your life. What impact (if any) has Aikido had on your writing?

See above – and Tai Chi as well.

For those of us outside the UK, its politics can be somewhat confusing :) Can you provide a brief overview of your activities with the Alternative Party?

UK politics aren’t confusing, they’re appalling – as are our politicians – venal, self-serving, craven, inept – on and on – don’t get me started fella! Sadly, suffering as I do from chronic ‘put up or shut up’ syndrome I had no alternative but to found my own party. Why? Because no one else is doing it and the people *desperately* need an alternative to the two main parties. It may well founder but equally, it may not. There are capable people out there if I can reach them

Thanks in advance from me and other fans!

You’re very welcome – thanks for allowing rant space. My best wishes to all my readers – hope you enjoyed the books

Janny Wurts is one of fantasy literature’s greatest living masters. Her first series was the critically acclaimed Cycle of Fire trilogy published in the mid-1980′s, in which the wizard of wind and water, Anskiere, and Ivainson Jaric, heir to the Firelord do battle against the Demon compact of Shadowfane and their allies.

The American author followed that up with a collaboration with fellow fantasy master Raymond E. Feist. The fruit of their labor — the Empire Trilogy set on Feist’s world of Kelewan — remains one of the most beloved fantasy series of all time.

But it wasn’t until Wurts published Curse of the Mistwraith in 1993 that the fantasy world truly realised what this remarkable author had in store. The book was just the first in a massive series — dubbed The Wars of Light and Shadow — that would help to define the fantasy genre, while subverting some of its core ideas.

According to Wurts’ website, the seed idea for the series came after watching a documentary on the Battle of Culloden Moor in Britain in 1746. “The experience gave rise to an awakening, which became anger, that so often, our education, literature and entertainment slant history in a manner that equates winners and losers with moral right and wrong, and the prevalent attitude, that killing wars can be seen as justifiable solutions when only one side of the picture is presented,” she writes.

In The Wars of Light and Shadow, Wurts portrays both sides of an amazingly complex conflict … and lets the reader decide for themselves about the associated morality.

Wurts has also published several stand-alone novels, collections and short stories. But it’s Initiate’s Trial, the next book in The Wars of Light and Shadow, that fans are truly waiting for. We caught up with the author in a recent email interview and got her thoughts on Initiate’s Trial, the construction of the series and the fantasy genre in general.

Your series The Wars of Light and Shadow is one of the most critically acclaimed fantasy epics currently ongoing. When do you expect the next book, Initiate’s Trial, to be out, and what can you let slip about the book and the broader Sword of the Canon arc?

Though I am extremely hesitant to commit any date – publishers rearrange their schedules all the time, until production begins, and I am just finishing up the last chapters, at this moment – I am hoping to see a publication date in the fall of 2010.

Any kind of a concrete preview is extremely hard, because the opening paragraph of the story is going to move all the markers! I don’t want to spoil that impact, one bit, because it is going to leave you breathless. You can expect this: Sword of the Canon will encompass two books packed with unpredictability; a deepening of understanding, both of the characters and the world; reverses that will change your assumptions; a continuation of the stories about the characters you care about; a careful setting of the stage for an unveiling of one of the biggest and best moments in the story at large, and, the setting up for the final volume and Arc V, Song of the Mysteries, which will be one book and deliver the payoff for the entire epic sweep.

Some characters will not be what you thought they were, or do what you thought they might. Some ancient conflicts will boil to a head. You’ll encounter one of the mysteries in the map. Some details from Arc I, II, and II will emerge with an importance and weight you may not have foreseen at the outset. There will be some new characters, an unavoidable delight, after the convergence that occurred in Stormed Fortress put a few of the threads into a changed arena.

I have a few sneak previews up in the chat at Paravia, for the curious, and expect to post the first chapter as teaser one month before release date. Watch for it.

A common complaint of long fantasy epics is that too many plot and character threads tend to overwhelm the author after the first half a dozen books in a series. Yet arguably, The Wars of Light and Shadow doesn’t suffer this problem. How have you tackled this problem of the genre?

Planning, for one thing – I’ve worked with this story idea for better than thirty years. Yes, I started very young. Before I published book I, much of the material had been written in crude draft, probably up to Peril’s Gate. I had scenes in piles, and stacks of notes on the back history, and a lot of the future course of the books in fragmentary form. Arc IV’s scene notes ran to over 80 pages. Arc V, close to that.

The other angle is the thrust of the books was never designed to sprawl out. I wanted everything “onstage” at Volume I, and from that point, each volume peels off another layer, and shifts the angle of view to deepen the perspective and heighten the viewpoint. I can’t speak for sprawl, because running off in tangential directions and getting lost is just not my way of working. The new, in this series, arises in the revelatory moment, when you are given the fresh angle that rearranges all the markers. What you presumed was not what is actual. What you think at first sight to be a classic pattern gets shattered by one fact, or one scene, that opens up a whole vista – there all along, if you could have perceived, or understood it.

I’m eager to bring this massive undertaking to the finish I’ve envisioned at the outset. I’d bore myself cross-eyed to write the same book twice, or dwell in an endless sequence of sequels, or languish in tearoom reunions of favorite characters. There’s not any financial incentive to draw things out, either – instead, the challenge of working a highly individual style and story in a rapidly changing global/corporate market has become a hair-raising endeavor. Fantasy written for a more mature and intelligent readership has posed a labor of love from the outset.

The Wars of Light and Shadow is known for its close and detailed focus on several core characters over its span, as opposed to the wider cast and shallower individual focus of other fantasy epics like The Wheel of Time and A Song of Ice and Fire. What challenges and opportunities has this focus given you in the series?

Keeping it fresh – not repeating the same plot lines, or doing the same “bar fight” the same old way, again and again – provides me with incentive aplenty to make every single scene break new ground in discovery. That’s my fun, and I trust, where the reader encounters enjoyment, being startled and amazed at the unforeseen twists.

More, I hate sequels where the characters have survived the wringer of experience, and emerge with their views or behavior unchanged. Part of what checks any urge to sprawl, or bring on “new” characters, is letting the existing ones grow up. Having ones you already care about fail, and pick up their lives, or change course in the wake of a triumph. Both the social view of the reader, and of the players in the story, are permitted to mature on their strengths, or fall flat on their faults, when the narrative opens them up to their weaknesses. I have never felt the need for new landscapes, or people, when the core of the epic is in unveiling the mysteries in the existing material.

Often character development in the Wars of Light and Shadow is startling, particularly as people gain new levels of self-knowledge. To what extent do you feel that authors need to have gone through similar progressions personally to be able to portray them successfully in their work? And what philosophies have spurred your focus on self-knowledge?

Life changes perspective – part of what moves the narrative is making it “current” with my own questions about life, and pursuing my own bent of fascination. The story we would read at twenty has a very different impact, viewed at forty or fifty. Over and over again, I’ve striven to create something “epic” – where a shift in view remakes the whole. Whether you move your markers through greater understanding, more experience, or greater wisdom, this tale will provide a different contour, no less compelling.

To make a story that can grow with a reader’s perception requires immense depth and height. To accomplish this, I filled the Atheran world with beings who have much more than mortal perception. I think writers do best when they stick to experience, or blend the hard stepping stones of that with visionary imagination. It’s about crafting a myth that tracks a belief, then changing the belief, and recrafting by throwing out or changing what no longer fits

Janny Wurts

Taken verbatim, any ‘philosophy’ becomes dogma. I have this unending shove, to blow up the box. Take any one statement, from any perspective, and stand it sideways or upended – what might you see, then? If viewpoint is made flexible, all meaning changes. Some views may have been things I held and discarded, others, views I encountered, unsatisfied, and the bit of the devil in me thought, “What would rip that little theory to bits?”

I distrust the idea that there is any “one” way to view anything. The universe we live in bears this out. Every single bit of it is always in dynamic motion. To freeze frame a moment, or define an idea by rigidity, is to rob all the mystery from it, and deny growth, creativity, and evolution. If there is a purposeful truth, I think it might lie in the concept that “ideologies” are false. Systemised thinking falls short because they strive to eliminate anything that is not yet understood. And quite often, under that elusive something, is the next concept that will shatter the model.

The moment I feel comfortable with an inspired belief, something in me just drives to bust the boundaries and explore whatever lies over the horizon. If I’ve done my job, the Light and Shadow series accomplishes the same thing.

Often your characters are inscrutable to those around them (and even to the reader), especially Arithon and Davien. What are your thoughts about the potential this creates for plot development, especially as it relates to the tension between reader knowledge and character knowledge?

If the character is inscrutable, it is because the viewpoint presenting the opinion of them is a blindered one. We form opinions every day, based on a journalist’s words, or a teacher, a parent, a peer. Something conditioned us to hold an assumption. Assumptions can be proven false, very easily, if one acquires from other sources, or breaks the mold of history as penned by the victor. People bring their assumptions to bear, when they interpret what’s said of a character. The prologue of the book warns that good and evil are a matter of perspective. Since I encounter the opinions caused by polarized ideas, every day of my life, it’s not hard to see where presumption will trip us up. I’ve tried persistently to open the pitfall that happens, when human beings close their mind to the existence of alternate angles of view.

The revelation that happens, when we find we are wrong, can revise logic, and radically open new avenues of thought. The best stories do that – they lend an experience that reshapes us in some profound way.

In such a large series, how have you managed to balance the need for characters to drive the story with the necessity of constructing the wider plot in which they act, presumably several books in advance?

The logical progression of a plot does not happen linearly. You know your starting premise, and you pick a finish point, and project toward that. Then you must let creativity inspire the leap. You encounter the way, as you get there. Then, as you move creatively through the progression, you use logic to target the “holes” – anything that would not work, could not work, might be too pat, or crumple on close inspection – you plug those holes systematically until the marble of character, with this set of traits, has to roll in a given direction.

Sometimes that marble’s ideosynchrasies jink the plot line this way or that. Sometimes the characters put a downright kink in your best laid plans. You work that in, no question, because it is that lively unpredictable wisecrack bit to their nature that makes the work breathe. Much of life’s problem solving works the same way. When mankind put a man on the moon, it was considered an impossible goal – but with that goal kept in relentless focus, the insoluble problems of engineering inspired creative solutions. It is creativity that brings the story to focus, and no amount of hammering logic, or planning, can replace that as the driving engine.

The continuation of the Dune and Wheel of Time series after the death of their creators has divided fans and created intense debate in the literary world. Without wanting to sound macabre, what would you wish to happen to The Wars of Light and Shadow in the event that you passed before it was finished?

I’d definitely want the readers to know the outcome I’ve planned, from the start. No way do I want to create this massive tale, and leave it unfinished. I have plenty of outlined notes to say where it is going to arrive. But honestly, from experience, I can also say, no substitute could finish it off in the same way I would.

Were anything unforseen to occur, I would hope there would be a way to see the story concluded. It would be arrogant in the extreme, if that happened, to expect such a stand-in (if anyone would, or could) not to blend their own experience in to color the finish. I have known, since nearly the outset, all of the major events and the stepping stone points of major conclusion. No way have I always seen how the characters would accomplish the route to achieve them. More, the elements of my style itself would not be very easy to replicate. Therefore, I intend to be here, at work, and finish the last scenes myself!

In a recent podcast interview, you argued that the fantasy genre was marginalised by its image, an opinion that several other writers have also recently expressed, as well as about the stablemate sci-fi genre. Do you think the genre labels are still useful? And what could be done to address this problem?

Imagination, creativity, pretending, all those things rely on projecting ideas that do not exist, yet. No change can occur, no inspired solution can happen, if no mind dares to frame the bold questions. Fantasy throws us out of the box of all that we know, and think we possess. I prefer the label, Myth, to view the activity of imaginative storytelling. This can all be summed up in the very elegant quote, attributed to Joseph Campbell: “Myth is much more important and true than history. History is just journalism, and you know how reliable that is.”

Everything anyone says or writes attaches to their beliefs. Beliefs, by their nature are limitation in action. Fantasy challenges those boundaries. It doesn’t matter if one reads to “escape” the rigidity of current possibility, or to relieve stress, or to indulge in a freedom of thought unavailable in the embodied moment. Never to step out of ourselves is to condemn the human spirit to stagnation. The whole philosophy of “adult maturity” that insists that we “come down to earth” and “put our feet on the ground” excludes the magic of exploring ideas.

The idea must come first. Exploration of an idea, in outrageous extreme, tells us where NOT to put our feet on the ground – opens new vistas, and new paths – so that coming down to earth can become an enriched, even wiser, experience. I believe, today, that genre labels have already blown the coop. Look at all the fantasy and SF that have “invaded” the mainstream of advertising, books, and entertainment. The very people who scoff at ‘genre’ have already been infected. They just haven’t woken up to the fact, yet.

For those who are threatened, or feel the ridiculous need to play the exclusion game, using labels – they can keep on blindly fumbling to pin the tail on the donkey, while the rest of us walk right past, go straight for the good stuff, and claim the prize at the edge of the envelope. Groups evolve to foster security, and pack mindset security NEVER innovated anything, but only drew lines to perpetuate boundaries, and stay in the flock.

Not everybody wants to be a mover and shaker. That’s fine. But for those who dare to sneer in my face, and belittle either the art of story, or the act of imagination, expect I will have no mercy or patience. Without imagination, there is no compassion – how could you begin to measure what somebody else felt, if you only saw from a hidebound perspective. It is imagination that illuminates the joy and the suffering, and story that passes that gift of experience on to others.

The stock answer is simple: I’ve heard from a young oriental woman, in broken English, that the Empire series has become subversive women’s literature in Japan. And I know that certain “think tanks” have hired in SF writers because their engineers had no idea how to project their practical knowledge into ideas, to be created. The closer to “real life” a tale is, the less it pushes the envelope. How do you address the “problem” of prejudice, blind faith, lack of intelligence, and fear of the unknown?

Speculative literature is going to push all of those buttons. Not surprising if some folks refuse to look past the sealed box of their comfort zone. For every innovation, there will always be naysayers. The genre label is just the current convenient excuse for dismissal.

To what extent do you feel that authors have a responsibility to play a part in discussion about their genre and comment publicly on issues, as opposed to letting their work stand for itself?

If story is the gift of experience, given to somebody else, then after the book is done, every reader is going to make that book their own, to love or to hate. I don’t wish to live in a world carved up by rigid ideas of political correctness. This means, in the face of discussion, I have the freedom to agree, or disagree, or to allow by tolerance, and say nothing at all. I’m not terribly fond of stories made into an ideological political platform, since nothing blinds our humanity more than polarized thought. Too often, the guy caught in the middle may be the one who sees the issue most clearly, but who hears him, he’s not the one shouting?

A work has to stand for itself, anyway. The author is better off writing another work, than to backtrack to defend it. Fantasy allows discussion of sensitive topics with the gloves off. This is not going to be comfortable. Or defensible. To write at all, and allow the public to share, opens the breach in the first place, since walls are built to eliminate fear. Never to explore fear cancels the opportunity to reach understanding. If responsibility means the ability to respond, education is better than argument. I’d rather open a dialogue with an open mind, than hammer away at an offensively closed one.

Although in many ways your work challenges and eclipses traditional fantasy tropes, in other ways it exemplifies them (swords, magic, dragons etc). What is your reaction to the strong challenge posed to such traditional ideas by the wave of so-called ‘urban fantasy’?

Not my bailiwick. When I began the first lines of The Wars of Light and Shadow, there was no market at all for it. Tolkein, classical myth, and fairy tales, and soon after that, the Ballantine Fantasy series. If I stopped to bother over the current trends, I’d lose my own way. They are what they are. If I distract myself, or worry about being overwhelmed, my own story will not get written. The current trend has added a layer of what I call the “cocktail party glaze” to the eyes, when folks ask what I do for a living, and the label arrives at “fantasy.”

No, not romance, no, not vampires, no, not Tolkein, no not Paolini, or whatever the going bit is … those things have their place. I have to persist with the belief my own readers will spread word of mouth to like-minded people. Since I’ve never been much of a pack follower, it may not surprise that my work doesn’t trample the beaten path. So I live with it, keep on being an original, and hope the dice fall in my direction. The trend may fade. Truly innovative work will not, because it leads its own curve. I keep going on that premise.

Could you describe your writing environment (eg desk, computer, room)? Are you strongly attached to this environment to be able to write, or are you a “have laptop, will travel” writer?

Nothing fancy! I work in a made-over one car garage, attached to a house on a country property. The place is spectacular, the room is not. Hot in summer, cold in winter, and too small not to be cluttered due to the volume of stuff that goes on, here. It’s filled with books, a massive stereo, about a thousand cds, and sheet music, and more notes, maps, and paintings and original handicrafts than a junk stall. Oh, and places for cats to sleep, I have four. They have to be in the middle. I write on a Mac cube. I have a little titanium laptop.

If I’m most comfortable writing in a good chair, right here, I can work on the road, and have – on buses, airplanes, in the field, and on dining room tables in company (with a headset). Travel is always inspirational. I balance my desk time with painting, sailing, music, riding, and wilderness trips. I play with an active pipe band. I share a big beautiful art studio with Don, when we’re not painting on location outside for amusement. I do have a dream: if a book hits big, I’d like to build a special studio to write and paint in, that would be big enough to hold all the activity.

But that’s not essential. Athera and all of the worlds of the stories live in my head. A lot of the early bits were done (and all of Sorcerer’s Legacy) on a tiny portable manual Royal typewriter that I got at a junk stall for 20 bucks. Before I had that, there was paper and pencil. I’ve still got about six spiral bound notebooks filled with the earliest conceptual pieces that started The War of Light and Shadow. Come down to it, the runes and all of the Paravian language were done as doodles in the margin of high school papers.

And lastly, a light-hearted question … which do you think twentieth century women would consider the biggest heart-throb if they really existed; Lysaer or Arithon?

Well, since I am not a romance writer, really, you’d have to ask the going reader. More, if you are going to frame an opinion, after arc III, but before Arc IV and V finish – you COULD be wrong if you try to speculate. And anyway, isn’t the twentieth century ancient history, at this point?

All images used here are copyright to Janny Wurts.